Originally by: Tarron Sarek

---

Oh and btw: the cap usage bonus IS a meaningful bonus. Stop thinking so dmg centered.

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Originally by: PeacefullNub

---

Whell - 15 pages, 450 posts and no Dev answer.
Looks like they just dont whant to boost amarrs at all (maybe becouse it means that they agreed - they ignored problem for all this years).
Then another solution - nefring all other races(armageddon is near)
What needs nefr - your suggestions.
Maybe in this direction topic will have some attention? 8)

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Originally by: daemorhedron

---

Not everyone fits MWD on every build, and it's pretty unnecessary (not to mention unimaginative) if you feel the need to do so, especially if you're doing a 'keeping up with the neighbours' attitude. Fitting an MWD has dramatic drawbacks, and will have even more counters with the release of Trinity.

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Originally by: daemorhedron

---

...

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Originally by: Euxinus

---

Edited by: Euxinus on 15/12/2007 17:06:48
Then dont fly amarr?
Amarr has good ships too..
But a little less than any other races..

Why all races should be in equal terms with all aspects of game?

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Originally by: DroneBay Diva

---

Incredibly well written thread, whether you 100% agree or not. Deserves another bump until issues are looked at a little more seriously by CCP.

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Originally by: Yazmina

---

I completely agree with this post. I am gallente that flies amarr ships. Dont ask why, but I just like the idea of not needing ammo for the lasers and I love the look of the amarr ships. Regardless i am hooked on them. I have noticed that lasers are much weaker than the other weapons as I have used blaster/rails vs. lasers. It is much more cap intensive than it needs to be. The fitting is also rediculous. Ships need more than 2 or 3 mid slots to be effective at anything. Please boost lasers and the amarr fleet to even things out a bit. Amarr REALLY need it.

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Originally by: flung dung

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i see once again ccp aint got the balls to admit the mistakes, no reply lots of disgruntled customers plenty of solutions, ideas passion for the game.

ever get the feeling your being ignored, at least a stfu would be helpful

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Originally by: Xiarem

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Quote:

---

I mean, what is the point of training Amarr as it stands now?

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Sorry I'm a little drunk and wantet to answer this. Lasers are pretty!

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Originally by: Traeon

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Edited by: Traeon on 28/12/2007 14:38:23
The issue i personally see is that base damage on lasers is low considering the omni tank issue. All amarrian ships without a damage bonus are considered weak.

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Originally by: Dillius Archania

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Originally by: Ash'el

---

Some would be yes, but if Amarr were all fine and dandy then there wouldn't be as much as a cry about Amarr's current state of ability.

---

A key point here, if there wasn't a true problem, we wouldn't be here discussing Amarr in a 1200+ post thread. Wouldn't be worth the time.

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Originally by: Drykor

---

Only read first page and not all 42. So this has probably already been said.

-You don't HAVE to use tachyon's for sniping.
-There is nothing wrong with amarr interceptors.
-You CANNOT assume you have infinite cap for tanking.
-You also cannot assume 3 damage mods in your dps figures, then use all slots on your tank analysis and still claim having more low slots isn't a benefit.
-You can't say actual hitpoints are useless in pvp. And no one cares about pve 'cause it's easy as hell anyway.
-Pulse lasers are great 'low' range guns.
-There are alot of shield tankers out there on which EM damage does nice things.


Now I'm not saying nothing is wrong with Amarr, but people like you that will say every single amarr ship is broken just make it a big joke and people won't listen.

---

Originally by: Dillius Archania

---

For the purposes of discussion and my own curiosity (as I have no fleet sniping experience), are there any situations really in which Megabeams are practical to use instead of Tachyons?

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Originally by: Jonny JoJo

---

Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 04/01/2008 00:16:16

Originally by: Wind Ictiva

---

every goddam race needs a boost.

why?

cause every race gets killed by another race.



ccp¦s job is to keep the equalibrium. and i¦ll restate what i said before. i think the majority of the people speaking in here are either:



a)new players
since amarr only rule at higher levels

b)older players who were used to being over powered and miss their good old times



my main point:
amarr chars are valuable in all gangs if played right.

just like all other races.

be it in fleet warfare or pirating

if you¦re into mining or missioning, you chose the wrong race (i think, maybe, i dunno, what ever)

all races have their good points
and
all races have their bad points

live with it. at least try to. thats what im doing at least. goddammit ppl!!

---

You compleatly miss the point.

We want Amarr to be competitive - not OMGWTFBBQ

Ahem....

Ok First of all - you go into a resteraunt. You love the food, but the Amarr brand of cola is flat. The Minmatar brand of cola used to be flat, but someone told the waiter and now it is fizzy.

What you are saying is that if you have a "Nice Meal" A.K.A Gang, then the flat cola is fine. I disagree with this viewpoint that you have

What Amarr pilots are saying is that why should we have a crappy flat cola when everyone else has fizzy cola? We have no problems with a mean or other brands of cola - just the Amarr brand is flat and we are doing our job by making our views known so that CCP can fix it.

---

Originally by: Imperator Jora'h

---

Originally by: Wind Ictiva

---

every goddam race needs a boost.

why?

cause every race gets killed by another race.



ccp¦s job is to keep the equalibrium. and i¦ll restate what i said before. i think the majority of the people speaking in here are either:



a)new players
since amarr only rule at higher levels

b)older players who were used to being over powered and miss their good old times



my main point:
amarr chars are valuable in all gangs if played right.

just like all other races.

be it in fleet warfare or pirating

if you¦re into mining or missioning, you chose the wrong race (i think, maybe, i dunno, what ever)

all races have their good points
and
all races have their bad points

live with it. at least try to. thats what im doing at least. goddammit ppl!!

---

This is all misleading.

Can Amarr ships be ok? Sure. Can some of them even be good? Sure.

But assume you have L5 skills in absolutely everything. Sub-cap ship name an Amarr ship you would fly before any other in any situation. I can think of maybe the Damnation but that is only if you want the Armor links. Maybe a Crusader if you want to hunt interceptors (and even then not sure).

So, barring two very narrow cases Amarr lose. There is a better ship to be had for anything in EVE.

Further, every other race has a unique flavor.

Minmatar: Speed and Swiss Army Knife
Caldari: Missiles and Ewar
Gallente: Drones and knife fighters
Amarr: ??? (erm...own the middle ground where no one fights )

Oh yeah, and last but not least where is the freaking missing Amarr frigate already???

---

Originally by: Gealbhan

---

I love how this topic is 43 pages long and not a single dev reply, hehe.

---

Originally by: Juliux Novi

---

throw us a frickin' bone here.

---

Originally by: Ash'el

---

Originally by: Wind Ictiva

---

if you¦re gonna boost amarr, boost gallente first

---

This clearly shows you have no clue wtf you're on about.

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Originally by: General StarScream

---

i bet i can skill for 30 days into amarr on sissi and beat anyone that challenge me in a fair fight same class vs same class

---

Originally by: Dillius Archania

---

I was about to say stop the trolling, the personal arguments, and the ****talking, but then I realized something.

Still no CCP answer, we really do need trolling to keep this thread up. Maybe eventually they'll get annoyed with it enough to respond.

I mean, every argument has been beaten into the ground already (whether here or any of the hundreds of other Amarr threads that have popped up), we have over 30 pages of VERY good discussion then a lot of people doing their best to keep the thread alive under the slim hope that something will happen.

---

Originally by: Jonny JoJo

---

Also to add, these impossible setups that people who dont fly amarr but tell amarr to use, are impratical and impossible.

Any sniper without a MWD dies in teh first bubble it hits.

Also - Amarr DO NOT HAVE 6 MIDSLOTS AND 12 LOW SLOTS to fit these theoretical setups that people think they have

---

Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras

---

Where is the balance......gallente troll...

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Originally by: LittleTerror

---

Fair enough blasters being the highest damage but why is it so god damn easy to use that damage?

---

Originally by: Uchuu

---

Are we at the half-point now from the last amarr 100 page thread?

I see no problems with amarr.... Then again the only ships I use are the geddon and harbinger in gangs... Rest I will use other race ships

Oh right and the abaddon....

My point? If you are unsatisfied, go fly another race. You have the power in this game to do so. Not like other mmorpgs where you pick a horrid class and you are stuck with it.

---

Originally by: Ruciza

---

Originally by: Dillius Archania

---

Originally by: PeacefullNub

---

Edited by: PeacefullNub on 06/01/2008 19:47:16
Some said that pulses dont need high tracking and tracking is useless at 10km (web) range.
Some tracking calculations
5 lvl motion prediction, no tracking\weapon bonuses:
Megapulse II (multi L) and Neutron blaster II (any t1 ammo that hits range) has chanse to hit (%):
1) BS orbiting 14km without ab\mwd
(400 signature, 150 tranversal, 14km range) - 89.3/95.6
2) BS orbiting 11km with AB (400\300\11) - 63.6/83
3) BS orbiting 14km with MWD
(2000\400\14) - 93,8/95
4) Webbed(80%) bs at 2km
(400\30\2000) - 87.2/94.8
5) Bestower at 15km (gatechamp)
(210\150\15) - 74.7/86.83

So final dps of mighty "owerpowered" Abaddon vs ANY moving target is slightly lower, even when target is webbed.

---

If these numbers are indeed accurate, it's a pretty significant point.

---

There is another significant point, and that is called selective perception.

---

Originally by: Aranbaal

---

Originally by: PeacefullNub

---

Do you realy think that anyone here manualy added 30\60\90 empty seconds for dps calculations?
Do you know where from this dps stats come? Maybe you think that all readers and OP used pan and paper?
Looks like stupid gatechamping 24/7 burns your mind. No, realy - do you know EFT/QF? Its 2008 - not 2004.

---

Ah so i am correct then you have based your calculations on a fight having 1 reload to get ur dps results. As that is how eft works. It factors in one reload to the dps calculations. So as stated try goin away and working it out with multiple reloads. And then see how much dmg lasers give ot in an prolonged battle. Basing your argument on what a 3rd party program tells you that doesnt take all teh factors into account isnt a very good way to prove your point.

---

Originally by: Techkraft

---

I will sign this, if:
the absolution gets its 4 mid and a large t2 crystal that hits at 0m-1000m.

thats all i ask, thats all i want.

---

Originally by: Andreask14

---

Originally by: Dillius Archania

---

Amarr just really need a way to actually dictate the range of a conflict, so that their increased optimal benefits for more than 2-3 volleys. As it is now, a battleship can MWD up to you quite quickly if you're not using an MWD. If the Amarr ship was using an MWD, well it'd be outa cap in little to no time.

---

This. Also, using a MWD reduces your available ammunition by 25%, a drawback only amarrians suffer from.
Furthermore, dont tell me ever again that not chewing through ammos is a plus of the amar when you always have to bring the most expensive t2 ammo of all races to a fleet fight,while having to transport millions worth of shots at a time, and when one of your short range t2 ammos is rendered useless (conflag).

---

Originally by: PeacefullNub

---

Myphs and legends about amarr race:
Legend about laser balance
Laser use 300% of blasters cap, but have unlimited ammo and ability to switch crys allmost instant - looks like fair balance for weapon system. Thats how all non-amarr players thinks.
But when it comes to t2/faction ammo - its actualy has shoting limits. And you cannot split navy cry for small parts, like any other ammo - you must carry 20-30kk no matter of situation. You cannot sell partially used cry, you cannot stack them. You cant even monitor remaining chardges without calculator.
And when it comes to instant reloading - old jamming bug apears. It is OLDEST known eve bug, that can be easily fixed. But for unknown reasons it still exists. CCP realy "loves" their subscribers:(
2) Myph about cap balance
Ok, lasers use cap, but amarr ships have many capcitor.
Amarrs BS for example, have 1 cap/s better caprech. But 1 megapulse II use 5,3 cap/s (8 megapulses - 42,3 cap/s - without any heatsink). So better caprech has some advantage only for amarr BS with AC\arty\missiles setups.

---

Originally by: TigerWoman

---

amarr ships have some probs but the mayor probs are sub harbinger t1 class and the apoc.
the geddon and the baddon are quite nice but only if you are close to station/supply point for repairs and new cap charges(or you dont need to be fast travelin at all).

but the biggest problem is that the midrange pro is not rly usable due to current game mechanics (they land on your head/close the distance within a short time/or are to far away). on sub bc the range benefit doesnt count and the tank benefit does not either, since all ships sub bc live due to speed or ewar and both do not rly apply to amarr.

add a huge chunk of crystals to be carried with you (much isk in your ship cargo)
add the smallest cargo for cap charges
add the ships which are a pain to fit (any sniper or dual rep mwd setups<- i never use them, more into plated tanks, but the speed problems get even harder with that).
add the ******** wasted bonus.

devs know there is something wrong with amarr, but the seem to have no solution for it ( since between the dev blog stating it and now it like 9 months?!).
but on the other hand its hard to find a bonus which would not overpower amarr.
an optimal bonus would make pulse longrange and beams quite op.
a tracking bonus would make beams to good (could work with t2 pulse ammo though)
a cap recharge bonus would make the ac "versions" of amarr ships to tank beasts.

but on the other hand. if the devs know about the problem (what they do - dev blog a year ago) they are either doing a crappy job and need to be fired or have something in mind which cooperates with other "soon coming" changes.

i would say that "boost patch" should rly deal with amarr or the devs will have some problems in explaining why they cannot solve a problem known for longer then a year.
i cannot go to my company and say oh sorry i fail and keep my job....
i do grant the devs time though since they have rough times with new ships the trinity stuff...

but sometime the time is just up.

and btw: it is not the players task to make the game, when we point out why certain things do not work it should be enough for the devs (since we pay to play). the task to bring up solutions is up to the game developer not the player base. we can only adress issues. so if you get a constructive post clearly aiming at and explaining certain problems it is your taks to fix it. i cannot wait for a customer to bring up a solution for the thing i mess up to change it. since you allrdy admitted that there is something wrong it is about time to get the job done.

regards tigerw

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Originally by: British Bulldog

---

Just how can devs ignore this?!

We've already had 101 page discussion to no avail. For over 2 years they have continued to nerf Amarr. Other players in other races are even signing up to this petition. 16% of players are only Amarr and proabably half that actually use Amarr ships!

Are they THAT BLIND or ignorant to ask why so few are playing using Amarr ships?!

Amarr IS broken so do something about it please. For God's sake at least give a response! Keeping quiet only proves you don't care.

If nothing is done I'm wondering just how many people will just not bother to renew their subscription. I'm a 4 year old player and seriously thinking why I should be paying to have a disadvantage!

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Originally by: Ruciza

---

Edited by: Ruciza on 09/01/2008 16:04:12

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

---

No Zulu basically said "There is nothing wrong with the race itself so we just gonna fix obvious failed ships like omen only" Wich is utter bullzhit.

---

In your (hopefully very humble) opinion. Your lack of imagination is not Zulu's fault. CCP has created a fine balance here.

The only thing they could be accused of is that they made it a little bit too complicated for some. The "oomph" will probably be a big sign: "Look this is how to fly Amarr."

No medium range combat, what utter noobishness. All combat is medium ranged or can be turned into medium range with tactics.

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Originally by: Slippery Nipple

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Originally by: Ruciza

---

All combat is medium ranged or can be turned into medium range with tactics.

---

Really? Then enlighten us will you?

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Originally by: SkyCrane

---

Originally by: Jonny JoJo

---

Originally by: nihlanth

---

Edited by: nihlanth on 09/01/2008 16:50:02
Edited by: nihlanth on 09/01/2008 16:47:30
Why don't they just add long range disruptors (cruiser-battle-cruiser- battleship size) that use more cap already? (High slot module)

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Because simple things that would make mid range combat viable, like 40km webs and disrupters, and default uncloak distancce toa gate being 30-40km insted of 15, would make Gallente PWNmobiles actually die vs amarr.

---

uhm, what about the Gallente Recons then? They'll get an obscene scramrange...

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Originally by: Gabriel Karade

---

40km webs and scramblers? Scramblers shutting down MWD's?... you guys don't want much do you...

Mid range combat isn't about flying solo.

---

Originally by: SkyCrane

---

I expect the next Amarr fix will be a Sacrilege nerf. That ships is just too easy to fit out and does far too much damage do be an Amarr ship.

Peacefullnub: People seem to think Amarrs role in this game is POS takedowns...
Which truly is pathetic and annoying and is as good as no role imo.

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Originally by: Jarriah Takate

---

Well, i am Amarr and i am proud of it.

---

Originally by: kessah

---

Felysta Sandorn train Surgical strike 5, pulse spec 4 missing out on 6% dmg there.

Amarr are fine i use them and im a perfect in them, they require high end skills.

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Originally by: Becka Call

---

Amarr will not get fixed. The next patch will further nerf Amarr ships; probably the Sacralidge will get power grid nerfed. The devs are saying they will fix Amarr but they're not taking it seriously. If they were taking it seriously then exchanges like the following wouldn't happen:

Did anyone internally think it was a Bad Idea(tm) to introduce a T2 version of a battleship that a developer stated(in a dev blog) would be getting a role change without implementing that change to base the T2 ship on?

I'm not sure what role change or devblog you're talking about. Could you link it for me?--Zulupark

The exchanage was at http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=631272&page=15
The dev blog was at http://myeve.eve-online.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&bid=427.

Zulu finally answered:
We've already said, again and again, that we want to look into giving Amarr more oomph. How we do that hasn't been decided.

Zulupark didn't even know what Tuxford said about fixing Amarr. He hadn't talked to Tuxford about what he had in mind about balancing Amarr. They went ahead and added another Amarrian ship(Paladin) based on a broken Amarrian ship.

No-one thought "hey this is a bad Idea; Were just going to have to fix this too later." No one thought "Tuxford said we might give the Apoc a role twist; Adding the Paladin first is going to make more work for us later."

I think Tuxford had some Ideas on fixing Amarr. I think they are all mooted now. This is like a big ugly task that everyone kicks down the road and tries not to think about now.
Its too hard of a problem to fix; Balancing 4 different races means that there are six different axis that have to be balanced. Three different races would only be three axis. Balancing Amarr to the other races is the same amount of work as balancing the other races was to each other.

So Easy way to fix Amarr? There is not one.
Good way to fix Amarr? Nerf the modules that everyone always fits for PvP: MWD/Cap booster/Scram/Web. Didn't the devs say that when everyone is fitting a module somethings wrong?

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Originally by: Enkindu

---

You guys ever think that this is perhaps intentional? Maybe you are all getting your rightful dose of Karma for voluntarily choosing to play a race that (even virtually) supports and practices slavery? Seems fair to me.

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Originally by: Becka Call

---

I am still surprised that:

a) People still complaining about how screwed Amarr and lasers are.

b) People actually argue that they aren't.

Why argue that they aren't? The devs aren't going to fix it. The easy way to shut down these threads is to point out that the Devs don't know how/care to fix the problem.

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Originally by: astowv

---

did people forget that Amarr is the only race that does not have to refit.
How much dmg can Amarr do on the 10 seconds that others have to reload.

mmm.

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Originally by: Becka Call

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

---

No I like keeping this thread going to prove that zulu doesnt read the forums when boost patch comes out.

---

He does't read the other dev blogs; why would he read the forums?

---

Originally by: The Djego

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Edited by: The Djego on 13/01/2008 21:05:31

Originally by: MenanceWhite

---

Originally by: Cpt Branko

---

post

---

But name amarr ships using medium sized pulse lasers that you'd pvp with. That you really would need to web.

Nano Zealot?

---

You can even nano a Omen quite good and the last thing you need for a setup that works outside of Web Range is a Web.
Nano Zealot is nothing funny when you meet one that is piloted right. Actualy Omen works better speed fitted than tanked because it simply lacks the Grid for a aceptable combination of Gank and Tank.

---

Originally by: McDonALTs

---

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

---

Originally by: The Djego

---

Edited by: The Djego on 13/01/2008 21:05:31

Originally by: MenanceWhite

---

Originally by: Cpt Branko

---

post

---

But name amarr ships using medium sized pulse lasers that you'd pvp with. That you really would need to web.

Nano Zealot?

---

You can even nano a Omen quite good and the last thing you need for a setup that works outside of Web Range is a Web.
Nano Zealot is nothing funny when you meet one that is piloted right. Actualy Omen works better speed fitted than tanked because it simply lacks the Grid for a aceptable combination of Gank and Tank.

---

Have you actually tried a nano omen? I have, it stinks. Nano zeal is good for your own safety in fast roaming gangs but not a real solo bbq machine. You cant really nano and gank effectively without help in that thing.

---

Doesent nano Zealot miss somthing like 80-90% of shots on a vagabond?

---

Originally by: The Djego

---

---

Originally by: Zaskarr

---

why is it bad? Just curious...

---

Originally by: Ruciza

---

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

---

Originally by: Zaskarr

---

why is it bad? Just curious...

---

Because a small gang of drones will make short work of that crummy tank and its not really fast enough to gain anything from it.

---

A Megathron is a subpar ship, because a small gang of Titans will make short work of that crummy tank and it's not really agile enough to warp away even with warning. I've seen it happen. Megathron = fail.

---

Originally by: Spyder1226

---

Seriously, has there been an official response to this thread? Did I miss it?

---

Originally by: Ruciza

---

You can't go and tell your customers they're too stupid. That means with the Amarr boost they will tell you indirectly.

---

Originally by: Orgos Khenn

---

Edited by: Orgos Khenn on 16/01/2008 18:42:25

Originally by: EliteSlave

---

give us 5 reasons as to why Amarr are a Viable Race and i can give you 50 reasons as to why they are not.

---

1) You can crosstrain Caldari ships.
2) You can crosstrain Gallente ships.
3) You can crosstrain Minmatar ships.
4) You can crosstrain ORE ships.
5) You can crosstrain.

Let's hear the 50 reasons and make them all entirely legitimate, entirely distinct, and well-typed, please.

ADDENDUM: Reason 6, as you pointed out yourself, is that Amarr capital ships are actually pretty damn good. So, let me throw that in there.

---

Originally by: EliteSlave

---

are we seriously up to 55 pages and not one dev response?

---

Originally by: Dlardrageth

---

Originally by: Andreask14

---

I crosstrained to ORE because they are the best ships for the purpose they have and they were never nerfed, ever and never will be. Except for these declining mineral prices these days.

---

Indeed. Wait, this is totally IMBA regarding that we get the same chance to train for ships on par with ther other races! Let's nerf Amarr! Hard. Can't have those pesky Amarr flying not too many pre-nerfed ships...

Or alternatively give us an easy and decisive rebalancing. Amarr characters get a racial character bonus of 25% to any basic mining laser yield. We are the laser race, so there! But it will neither give us any extra DPS nor address the cap issues, no reason to whine "IMBA" for other races thus, eh? But that bonus will be useful even on Amarr ships. And to the incoming whines from other races...

You had your chance. You failed at playing Amarr. Tough luck...

Oh, wait. As if anything like this will ever happen. We are the smallest player race in EVE. Almost forgot, we thus contribute least to CCP's wallet... so better brace for the next Caldari buff... And don't expect any serious Dev response here on the forum. Last time they did take position it was like "NEXT" and a thread closed. Any more questions...?

---

Originally by: 1ncinerate

---

Edited by: 1ncinerate on 18/01/2008 04:35:11
Zulu and Hammerhead have already stated in a live dev blog that Amarr will get some changes in the "boost patch" - so I don't see why they need to repeat themselves here. Saying that though, a few of the Amarrian ships need some love, especially the Cruiser and BC classes.

Why it is taking some time is I believe Amarr needs something, but any bonuses changed/applied - slapped on like a quick fix - will greatly overpower them. What makes the game good and balanced - reasonably - is that each race has a strength and weaknesses in the roles that they perform. If you apply some of the suggestions made in here - changing bonuses etc - then you start making Amarr not only powerful in their own role, but then surpassing the other races in their roles as well, which is overpowered.

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Originally by: HaulandHaul

---

Now lets talk about the rediculous amount of range and tracking amarr has, shall we?

---

Originally by: Frances Ducoir

---

Originally by: Bellum Eternus

---

I read through it all.

You're doing it wrong. Stop playing Eve in EFT and start playing Eve on TQ.

All of your theoretical maximums and paper analysis is completely useless and has no validity. You're forcing each ship to use theoretical setups in order to establish a 'baseline' that is fictional and unrealistic. Each ship will be fit/tuned to it's specific strengths and weaknesses. Again, your theories are invalid and without basis.

---

this.



@ felysta sandorn: your analysis is a complete fail


all your focus is on t1 ships, where EM resists amongst armor tanks are usually the highest.

lets have a look on t2 ship fits:

astarte typical pvp fit resist:

em therm kin exp
74 74 84 73

phobos:
em therm kin exp
79 83 92 76

woooot... em second lowest resist...

caldari and minmatar t2 ships start out with 0 shield base resistances.

so in conclusion amarr does great damage against: all races t2 ships, all shield tanking t1 ships. if you want omnipotence, train for ECM. every race has its drawbacks.

you can play this game for every race if you just focus on t1 or t2 ships, or on specific race ships and whine you cant do anything against them.

the one and ONLY drawback amarr really has is the cap use of lasers, and maybe the odd ship which is difficult to fit... but believe me, gallente has engough ships, which are difficult to fit too, and so does every other race i bet.

---

Originally by: Frances Ducoir

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Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 18/01/2008 14:00:13

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

---

Ever try shooting lasers at a t2 minmatar armor tank like muninn? The EM resist is stupidly imbalanced on minmatar t2 armor.

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in all honesty... how often do you really engage a muninn. they have crazy em resists... but thats about it. most of the minmatar t2 ships are shield tanks.
you cant focus your whine on a specific ship. there is no race in eve which can kill EVERY ship of the other race equally good.

Originally by: Cpt Branko

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All good up to this point. However, you are horribly wrong saying that Minmatar T2 starts w/out shield EM resists. It does get EM resists. Awesome ones, at that... it is Caldari T2 which doesn't.

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my bad, sorry
so i should have said, amarr does great damage against all races t2 ships except minmatar (but they should still do good against minmatar t1 ships).

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Look, a Munnin with a EANM and DC II is a comedy fit - armour tanking a Munnin and using it like a Rupture is LOL.

You get 20% more DPS out of turrets over a Rupture and a tad less out of drones and better tracking and very good resists vs Amarr and Amarr only. Paying 130M to do marginally then a cruiser you can T2-fit really well for <22M LC is just lol, which is why I'm saying you're citing a comedy setup.

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Originally by: Meridius Dex

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Great news, guys. A dev just responded.. to another thread on on Page 1 about ambulation. And it was after only 5 posts! I'm sure they'll be along any minute to post a reply here.

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Originally by: Orgos Khenn

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Edited by: Orgos Khenn on 18/01/2008 16:51:15

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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I think this thread will break page record. There cant be smoke without a fire, can there?

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It's called whining.

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Originally by: Orgos Khenn

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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So what youre basically saying is that people who pick amarr and play it have a much higher tendency to make long whine threads about problems that dont really exist. Is this what youre saying? Because I sure cant see a 60 page minmatar, gallente or caldari discussion/whine... Please enlighten us wise one.

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That's because when people choose to fly Minmatar/Gallente/Caldari ships, they don't whine about how crap they are, because they aren't crap. So why aren't you flying a Minmatar/Gallente/Caldari ship, rather whan whining abotu how crap about Amarr ships are?

CCP have demonstrated they -won't- fix Amarr ships just because people whine about them; but if nobody is -flying- Amarr ships, they might try to make them more attractive. You may just achieve more - and in the meantime you'll be flying something that is good enough to not whine about.

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Originally by: Orgos Khenn

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Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

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I like to point out the ccp failures because Im paying their salary, mkay? I chose a race because I liked the looks. Obviously there IS something wrong with amarr as a whole race (ofc there are several ships that are flyable etc that I use) because amarr ships seen in space is a minority according to the dev blog statistics. There is a reason for this and its not that the ships are ugly, mkay?

You pretty much admit that there is something wrong with the race right? Are you a ccp alt or why do threads like these bother you?

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It's the whining. It really is the whining. I like the constructive criticism - it shows people put their brains behind the argument - but how much of these...what, 57 pages, are constructive criticism? Some people have made an effort to keep it that way, power to them. It's the whining that really truly eats my donut.

Though...when an Amarr ship is pretty, it is very pretty. But when it's ugly it's uuuugly.

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Originally by: PeacefullNub

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I just tried to find place for amarrs that is not used by another race. As i know - noone has EW drone bonuses on ships - only DPS and HP drone bonuses.
So EW drones may give amarr ships some extra med slots - for example web drones.

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Originally by: PeacefullNub

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Originally by: Dristra

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If it is not supposed to be the best gank bc, what is it supposed to be best at?

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I dont whant amarr ships to be best at something. I whant them to be different, so that noone can clearly said "harbi is the best" or "Huricane is clearly better than harbi in every aspect".

You cant compare for example droneboat and missile boat, becouse their weapon systems and bonuses are diffirent. Its silly, but you can compare laserboat and any other turret ship.

Lasers and lasersips must have something special in them (not ammo switching bug), not just "lasers are hybrids with greater capusage and lower dps. Lasers are projektiles with capusage and without damageversatility. etc."

Originally by: Dristra

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Giving Amarr ew drone bonus would make no sense, be too good, and kick Caldari in the nuts

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I just tried to find place for amarrs that is not used by another race. As i know - noone has EW drone bonuses on ships - only DPS and HP drone bonuses.
So EW drones may give amarr ships some extra med slots - for example web drones.

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Originally by: Durao

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Did you forget the positive changes from Khanid mk2 so easily?

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Edited by: Cpt Branko on 24/01/2008 00:14:52

Originally by: SkyCrane

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Originally by: Felysta Sandorn

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Technically speaking, due to the whole 'midrange' thing, Amarr should be the race with the webbing recons...

Actually, that's not enough... Amarr t1 ships should have web range bonuses, like the Apoc of the Geddon or the Harbinger or the Omen...

In fact, take every Amarr ship that has a cap use bonus on it, and change that to 25% to web range, so at level 5, a web is 22.5km on an Amarr ship, or in other words *MIDRANGE*...

I'm willing to live with enormous cap use if that comes in...

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/signed....

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Also, give Amarr 40km scram range, so we can finally delete the Minmatar and Gallente EAFs and forget about their stupid recons. It's stupid Ammarians have to train for those just to be able to toast any interceptor ever tackling them.

I also propose to give Amarr 250% damage boost, 100% tracking boost, and 100% optimal just in case, also multiply their cap amount by ten times and give all the ships 125m3 bandwidth, they need the love.

Also, give them a 50% speed boost, because it's lame how short-range ships can ever catch longer ranged ships, too. And 100% agility would be nice, plus 2-3 points of free WCS so if you do somehow get tackled and cannot hit a webbed inty you can just warpoff.

Also, give Amarr all four damage types without penalities, too.

Perfectly balanced.

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Originally by: Lemptie

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Can`t find a solo pvp apoc video.

Why isn`t there any ?






Amarr cap race ,always outa cap.

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Originally by: PeacefullNub

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Edited by: PeacefullNub on 28/01/2008 07:54:48

Originally by: Arlenna Molatov

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I dont know if this idea has been presented before but I'm not giong to read through 62 bloody pages--

Why not introduce a new class of energy turrets that adds a kinetic dmg ability to lasers? New technology and all that jazz. Of course there would be a little increase in the fitting reqs..as adding a kin ability to a laser will surely require either more power or CPU...most likely power.

New crystals can be added or old ones changed to allow the effect as well or bonuses to it.

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Long ago CCP tried to add Blaze (explozive) crystals for amarrs - but players suggested that amarrs will be overpowered. Maybe they were right atm.

But today amarrs could use something like that - just to have damage versatility that other races allready have.

I dont think amarrs need firepower and dps - we have nice dps for nice range. All we need - ability to use this range and this dps in combat.

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Originally by: PeacefullNub

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Looks like CCP found more impotant problems to fix: jump freiters and asteroids.
Dont look at amarrs - we could wait for 3 years, you know

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Originally by: Goumindong

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Originally by: Meridius Dex

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(What do you have to say now, Goumindong?)

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Its an unjustified sweeping change that modifies more about the game than the intent of the blog lets on. Its dangerous at best.

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Originally by: Goumindong

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Were not starving. And im a fan of getting it right and not causing other problems.

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Originally by: Cosmo Raata

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So everything is apparently based on pulses and we're not allowed to fit beams. Stupid!!! Oh, and Amarr pg is determined by the crappiest guns unlike every other race in the game. So this thread is not going to die, CCP your fixes are measely crumbs for us poor Amarr to make us forget how crappier our race really is. The following are absolutely necessary before I conceed that CCP has any idea on wtf they are doing, because as needed as the changes they made were, these are more important still.


Laser Cap reduction_________?????
Laser Fitting redution_________?????
7th turret Absolution__________?????
Retribution Med slot___________?????
Nos rework for Curse/Pilgrim___?????

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Originally by: Agent Li

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Speaking of Amarr problems, why are they so ugly? I mean, they walk around with those bags over their faces...

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